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Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 27 Nov 2017, 12:16
by Sathias
And PM Mathias isn't too far removed from PM Sathias :P

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 27 Nov 2017, 14:08
by brimlad
and that's what happens when you live west of the Murray... too much grass in the pipe :) :P

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 27 Nov 2017, 15:58
by Sathias
lol :P

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 May 2018, 12:18
by Mythor
It's been a while between stories, but now there's another one! Labor Senator Katy Gallagher to be ejected for still being a British citizen at the time of her election, though she'd taken steps to renounce prior to election.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-09/k ... nt/9742114

It's expected this may lead to a couple of other Labor people being bounced because the party won't want to fund more challenges. And a "South Australian Centre Alliance Member", Rebekha Sharkie, is seeking urgent legal advice because she's in a somewhat similar position.

Still think a new election and jail time for anyone who STILL stuffs it up is the way to go. End it once and for all!

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 May 2018, 12:32
by Disco
I really don't care? Can someone explain to me why it's a big deal?

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 May 2018, 13:53
by Yurtles
Because laws are laws I guess. Plus it's easier to draw a hard line and enforce it than to try and discern subtle distinctions with this stuff. If we didn't enforce stuff like this we could hypothetically have a bunch of foreigners running our parliament with loyalties belonging primarily to their home country rather than Australia.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 May 2018, 14:12
by n1cholas
Disco wrote:
09 May 2018, 12:32
I really don't care? Can someone explain to me why it's a big deal?
Because the politicians in question signed a statutory declaration.

If politicians expect constituents to abide by the law then it is only appropriate that said politicians should also abide by the law.

While a person having citizenship from one or more countries other than Australia shouldn't prevent them from standing for parliament IMO the law is the law.

I think any referendum on Section 44 would likely fail because people have so little trust in politicians now.

Even after these byelections there will still be MPs that have their citizenship staus in question and that is pathetic considering how long this sorry saga has been going on.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 May 2018, 15:05
by Disco
Eh I pretty much assume all politicians are liars to some extent anyway :lol:

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 13:23
by Sathias
Mythor wrote:
09 May 2018, 12:18
It's been a while between stories, but now there's another one! Labor Senator Katy Gallagher to be ejected for still being a British citizen at the time of her election, though she'd taken steps to renounce prior to election.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-09/k ... nt/9742114

It's expected this may lead to a couple of other Labor people being bounced because the party won't want to fund more challenges. And a "South Australian Centre Alliance Member", Rebekha Sharkie, is seeking urgent legal advice because she's in a somewhat similar position.

Still think a new election and jail time for anyone who STILL stuffs it up is the way to go. End it once and for all!
Jail time? LOL you can't be serious.... They weren't ruled invalid until the High Court made their decision, it would be charging them retroactively to then jail them as a result.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 14:11
by Mythor
Sathias wrote:
11 May 2018, 13:23
Mythor wrote:
09 May 2018, 12:18
Still think a new election and jail time for anyone who STILL stuffs it up is the way to go. End it once and for all!
Jail time? LOL you can't be serious.... They weren't ruled invalid until the High Court made their decision, it would be charging them retroactively to then jail them as a result.
Please re-read the sentence. I said they should have a NEW ELECTION and anyone caught out AFTER THAT should be thrown in jail.

... although, they've already done the wrong thing. They're not inventing a law and applying it retroactively, it's an existing law they've been found to have contravened. The only issue is whether jail time is currently listed as a penalty for breaching electoral law, which it seems to be. From https://www.aec.gov.au/elections/austra ... fences.htm
Nomination offences include making a false or misleading statement on the nomination form, maximum penalty: 12 months imprisonment (Division 137 of the Criminal Code).
Won't happen, of course. :thumbdown:

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 16:38
by Sathias
The thing I don't get is they have to have citizenship sorted out before they nominate, according to this ruling by the high court. Being that they are at the mercy of how long it takes for the various external governments to process the paperwork, the HC is basically saying they have to know they are going to nominate long before they actually do. Even though I am not a lawyer, it doesn't appear to me to be a very practical application of the "reasonable steps" clause. Putting in an application to renounce citizenship months before nomination would appear to me to be reasonable steps.

I do agree that there are no excuses after the next election. It's just that some people will always be ineligible to stand unless they give up their citizenship long in advance of actually knowing whether they are going to be asked to nominate or not.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 18:07
by Otto-matic Reiffel
Also has the potential for some countries to sit on the paperwork for years if they want.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 18:17
by storm84
Feel it's all quite strange when our head of state is a foreign citizen to begin with. For those with British (Or any Commonwealth citizenship tbh) needs to renounce their allegiance before swearing allegiance to the Queen.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 18:23
by Mythor
Otto-matic Reiffel wrote:
11 May 2018, 18:07
Also has the potential for some countries to sit on the paperwork for years if they want.
Indeed, or countries that have more than enough problems of their own just not having the time or framework to handle such things. I would have thought the "reasonable steps" should count from the request to renounce, not the acknowledgement. The High Court apparently disagrees.

Maybe the AEC/High Court could allow filing the renunciation with them alongside the formal filing, so if it's ever a problem in the future there'll be independent proof of when it was sent? Not being beholden to foreign powers is the point of the rule, so it's not great they can hold paperwork back.

Hopefully everyone has their paperwork in order now.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 11 May 2018, 20:49
by André Axe'm
Yeah I agree that ruling that the people who had submitted the forms to have their citizenship repealed was not good enough, was silly.
I'm unsure what happens if a country then simply doesn't process the paperwork.
Might be an easy way for Russia to influence the government here. Issue citizenship to anyone they don't want in and fail to process the renunciation paperwork. :P

Its probably come up already, but the way the original constitution was written said some like "cannot be a citizen of a foreign power". At the time, the UK was not a "foreign power", so there was nothing odd about the Queen being British. That was only changed in 1986.
Actually, with the Queen being our Queen, is she actually not entitled to Australian citizenship at all? Cos that would be rather comical, to be the Queen of a place you... *just looks it up instead*.
Interesting, apparently the Queen is not a British citizen either. Being Sovereign apparently makes things like citizenship and passports not apply to you.
So basically, our head of state is not a foreign citizen. She isn't a citizen of anywhere, and being our Sovereign means she isn't foreign, she is allowed in at any time.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 30 May 2018, 11:38
by brimlad

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 19 Jun 2018, 19:18
by brimlad

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 03 Jul 2018, 11:05
by brimlad

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 03 Jul 2018, 12:16
by Mythor
This thread is for the (ongoing?) citizenship debacle, not general Australian political stuff. :P

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 03 Jul 2018, 12:18
by Makena
Mythor wrote:
03 Jul 2018, 12:16
This thread is for the (ongoing?) citizenship debacle, not general Australian political stuff. :P
Yeah, pile of by-elections in a couple of weeks as a result of all this (to bring it kinda back on track)

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 03 Jul 2018, 15:26
by brimlad
Mythor wrote:
03 Jul 2018, 12:16
This thread is for the (ongoing?) citizenship debacle, not general Australian political stuff. :P
totally agree but it's all a tad thread thin here so why create another when as Makena says it's all about the Tim Tams :)

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 Jul 2018, 13:40
by brimlad
the politics of politics lol

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 09 Jul 2018, 14:28
by André Axe'm
Oh my god.
I feel sorry for all Queensland residents, that their politicians think this is important.

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 12:17
by brimlad
two and a half days to go and anything can still happen... looking forward to friday :)

Re: Australian Parliamentarians a nest of dual citizenries

Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 22:20
by n1cholas
brimlad wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 12:17
two and a half days to go and anything can still happen... looking forward to friday :)
Thanks for the laugh.