Federal Election May 18, 2019!

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Mugsy
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mugsy » 18 Apr 2019, 07:40

I was thinking more of having to rent out one's property if you moved in with your partner, or if you took a job interstate, or any other reason that takes you away from your property for long periods of time where selling up isn't a good option and renting it out softens the financial burden. Unless you're the first owner of your property, you're pretty screwed if you buy an older property after the cut off date and that's going to be very limiting for people who work in the CBDs where new property is generally expensive and development is limited to brownfield sites.

The idea would work a lot better if the politicians had a better idea of what's required to set up economic and social nodes away from the CBD and with the right transport infrastructure so that CBD based jobs could be spread out. They haven't been able to crack the concept.

Failing this, limiting negative gearing to no more than 2 properties per individual would be the best way to attack those property moguls who've over leveraged off negative gearing but provide some wiggle room for the Aussie battler.

I'm also not in favour of unnecessary brownfield redevlopments given the shortcuts many cowboys in the building industry is taking these days. My 11yo complex has an estimated $2mil of defects... something you just don't see in buildings from the 60s, 70s and 80s because their issues have either been dealt with or they were built to better standards.
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It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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storm84
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 18 Apr 2019, 09:35

One of the problems of housing policy is that it is a zero sum game. When you're in the market, you're competing with other prospective buyers that could make money from the asset in two ways - the costs of renting, or profiting from the sale. Tax breaks and incentives in favour of the investors seem downright unfair to prospective buyers who are forced to compete with the extra resources an investor has, and the long term value of that property if it were rented instead of being a home.

The main political contradiction this highlights is politicians still talk about the home as the foundation for a family's wealth (excluding Latham who sees a petrol engine car this way) and that a lot of policy is geared around this - especially in one's old age. As more and more young Australians are being squeezed out of the housing market and forced to rent, we're seeing the shortfalls of our current laws.

The removal of negative gearing, as far as I'm concerned, is needed to help even the playing field beaten investors and buyers. We're never going to get rid of housing as an investment (The new great Australian dream is to own someone else's home) but we don't have to have such a skewed system that favours a group that already has so many advantages in the zero sum game.
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brimlad
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by brimlad » 18 Apr 2019, 09:48

CherryRed wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 14:38
I already did that and found all parties fell close to equal :-\
go with the local member that rocks your boat, they will be the person that you can chat with if you have an issue.

and the IPA are turning up the heat, no. 10 seems the favourite :)
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brimlad
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by brimlad » 18 Apr 2019, 12:23

Sammy J having a chat with PK on RN, very funny

https://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/pg ... ?play=true
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n1cholas
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by n1cholas » 19 Apr 2019, 11:30

The Libs seem to be spending most of their time critiquing Labor's policies but due to the extreme exaggerations, overreach and lies it often descends into comedy and/or farce and backfires, case in point the electric car scare campaign and that "Labor is coming for all the tradies utes".

My old man just laughed and said "Well it's a good thing we sold the ute and use a van". LOL

Morrison is a lowbrow politician but thus far this campaign has been even stupider then I thought it would be, will be interesting to see just how stupid peak stupid from this government is.

Never been an easier decision to vote for someone other then a major party candidate.
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brimlad
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by brimlad » 19 Apr 2019, 11:49

cathy has nailed the first quarter pretty good imo,
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Mythor
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 19 Apr 2019, 12:02

n1cholas wrote:
19 Apr 2019, 11:30
My old man just laughed and said "Well it's a good thing we sold the ute and use a van". LOL
:lol:
The Liberals still seem to think we'll be using petrol forever. The sooner we start moving to electric the better prepared we'll be, it's crazy watching them talk about it like not doing it is a viable long term option.
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Mugsy
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mugsy » 19 Apr 2019, 13:35

Yeah, I'm hoping my petrol sedan lasts long enough until electric becomes cost efficient and viable. Don't particularly want to buy a new car only to replace it in less than 10yrs. I'm not a car enthusiast and $20k vehicles for 10-15yr use do me just fine without breaking the bank.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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André Axe'm
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 19 Apr 2019, 14:40

I can't see petrol being phased out quickly in Australia. We have too many long roads and remote places.
Once you can do 1000km on a full charge, then I can see petrol usage vanishing.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 19 Apr 2019, 15:56

I would imagine that in the next 10 years, what we'll see is a proliferation of charging stations rather than a phasing out of petrol.
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CherryRed
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 20 Apr 2019, 13:38

They are perfectly fine if you live in a city and have no interest in travelling outside of that city by car - plug your car in at night to charge (average time for full charge from flat is 7 hours on the Nissan Leaf), have a 300-350km range per charge (again using the Leaf as an example). That's fine.

For us, we couldn't even visit Disco's parents (420km round trip) or do a quick trip to Sydney/Canberra (600km round trip) on a single charge, and the idea of travelling to Brisbane by road (2000km round trip) would be completely out of the question.

As someone who lives in a regional area, I just cannot see electric cars replacing petrol cars anytime soon, if at all in my lifetime unless the improvement in technology is massive.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 20 Apr 2019, 14:32

I don't see it as much different to having petrol stations on long trips. If there are ample charging stations en route, then there's no problem. But that's one reason for governments to set targets - it justifies the infrastructure spend needed to make it work.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 20 Apr 2019, 16:00

You've missed the point. It doesn't take me 7 hours to refuel my car.

If we take the Nissan Leaf as an example, and a trip to visit my parents in Brisbane.

A typical road trip there for us takes 12 hours, we only need to refuel once as my car smashes out about 700-800 kilometres to a tank... but let's say 11 hours is travel, 1 hour is rest/refuelling stops. In a Nissan Leaf, we would only be able to travel 350km, then we'd have to stop for 7 to recharge the car. Travel another 350km, stop again for 7 hours and then complete the final 300km. All up, 11 hours of travel and 14 hours of recharging. What was a 12 hour trip is now a 25 hour trip.
Last edited by CherryRed on 20 Apr 2019, 16:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 20 Apr 2019, 16:02

If charging stations took hours, there'd be no point to them. Fast charges can be done in minutes - not hours - that would give hundreds of kilometres range. And that's with technology that's available today - who knows how well this technology would advance in the next 5-10 years given the amount of R&D that's happening globally in this area.

EDIT: obviously if the Nissan Leaf is your only option for an electric car and the Nissan Leaf could only be charged in 7 hour blocks and not any quicker, then the Nissan Leaf wouldn't be a good car for long journeys. Obviously. Though how indicative that is of electric cars now, or how indicate that would be of electric cars in 2030, is another matter.
Last edited by storm84 on 20 Apr 2019, 16:11, edited 1 time in total.
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CherryRed
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 20 Apr 2019, 16:10

All reputable sources seem to indicate a typical electric car with a 60kWh battery takes just under 8 hours to charge from empty-to-full with a 7kW charging point. I can't charge my phone in minutes. I'll believe I can fully charge a car from flat to 100% full in "minutes" when I see it.
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Mugsy wrote:
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I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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storm84
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 20 Apr 2019, 16:17

There are chargers that do more than 7kw now, so why should we think that's the metric we should judge electric car performance by?
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 20 Apr 2019, 16:25

Even so, unless my car charges to full in the same time it takes me to throw in a tank of fuel, I'm not and will never be interested. I don't believe the technology is anywhere near sustainable enough for regional living as it currently stands.

Currently there's about 750kms of road without a single charging station on our route between home and Brisbane... so... yeah, that would work well.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 20 Apr 2019, 16:38

So from a policy perspective, do you see anything changing in 10 years time? Like, if there were more charging stations and fast charging cars could be done in minutes rather than hours, do you think anyone in regional centres might see it as viable? Or do you think it's an utter waste of time to even try to plan for a time when there are more electric cars on the road?
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Sathias » 20 Apr 2019, 17:13

In 10 years time I would think electric cars will have some sort of solar power element to them as well, probably built into the paint/body of the car itself. I agree that they are not viable at the moment, especially in Australia, but this technology is advancing really quickly. Even if they do take a bit longer to charge than a car takes to refill, it's highly possible that solar advances to the point where some time in the future, your car fuel is effectively free, or at least much lower cost than petrol. You'd turn up to your outback charging station, put the car on charge, sit down and have a coffee/break, and then be on your way.

For me personally, I practically only drive my car to work, the airport and to do shopping. The only out of the city drives I do is to go and see my parents (which is about a 40 minute drive) and to see a mate up in the Barossa, which is about a 2 hour drive. So if I had solar at home it would probably be viable for me at the moment.

What I would like to see is some sort of combo/hybrid technology where the car can take fuel and electricity, but instead of the electric drive acting as a suppliment to the petrol drive, it acts as the primary drive and the petrol acts as a backup generator that kicks in when the electric charge runs out.
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André Axe'm
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 20 Apr 2019, 17:45

You can avoid the charging time issue by doing a battery swap instead. It will depend on what technology companies end up supporting.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 20 Apr 2019, 18:41

Sathias wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 17:13
What I would like to see is some sort of combo/hybrid technology where the car can take fuel and electricity, but instead of the electric drive acting as a suppliment to the petrol drive, it acts as the primary drive and the petrol acts as a backup generator that kicks in when the electric charge runs out.
There's a hybrid that does this, or did this, but the name escapes me right now. It was on Top Gear, if I recall correctly. Not the one they built, that did it, but another one!

Hybrids can be a good idea, so you can use the electric for shopping trips and getting around town, but have the security of being able to just dump a load of petrol in if you need to go further. But if charging stations became as ubiquitous as petrol stations you'd probably rarely have to top it up.

The big reason we need Government backing for this stuff is because most car companies aren't going to invest in the charging station network (or battery swap locations) we'd need for it to rival the petrol network. They might do installs for their own cars, like Tesla have done, but getting them all to cooperate on a universal standard on their own seems unlikely.

Some time in the future you'll just park your car in a parking lot or garage and it'll top you off automatically and deduct a few cents from your account. Unless climate change gets us first. :)
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Otto-matic Reiffel » 22 Apr 2019, 12:34

Tesla's fast charge currently does 80% in 30 minutes. That's about 400 KM (you should be taking a break driving this long anyway).

Tech will improve, but I agree for the rural folk the plug in hybrids are probably a better option for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 22 Apr 2019, 22:06

Okay, let's ditch the Nissan Leaf and talk about the Hyundai Kona.

It will travel just over 400kms per charge, on a 100kW DC Charger it will take an hour to charge back to 100% - on a 1000km journey, sure we stop for breaks, but there ain't no one travelling that far that's fannying about for an hour when they stop for a rest. We swap drivers regularly, and stop 2-3 times for about 15-20 minutes. This would make our 12 hour trip take at least 14 hours. It was my understanding when I last looked into it that battery swapping is not an option, it's not an X-Box controller, you can't just pop our your AA's and pop in a new set. Even if you could, you can add an extra $5k minimum to the cost of the vehicle for the spare battery.

That aside, in a specially installed 7.2kW charger installed by Hyundai (at a cost of $2000), your car will take 9.5 hours to charge at home - or, if using a domestic power point (ie: when visiting family, they wouldn't have a fancy charger available) you can expect your car to be out of action for over 20 hours to fully charge.

The petrol version of the Kona can be bought for around $25k... the electric version is $60k minimum (can be spec'ed up) plus $2k for the charging port... sure I won't be spending as much on fuel, but I've just forked out $37,000 more for the vehicle.

Was I a bit quick to jump and say electric won't work in my lifetime? Yeah, probably... but is it something I can see being a viable option for us in the near future? Absolutely not.
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Mugsy wrote:
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Nekosan » 22 Apr 2019, 22:14

André Axe'm wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 17:45
You can avoid the charging time issue by doing a battery swap instead. It will depend on what technology companies end up supporting.
So you're proposing I put 300kg of batteries in my boot and pull the car half apart to void my warranty by changing them myself?
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 23 Apr 2019, 00:33

Nekosan wrote:
22 Apr 2019, 22:14
André Axe'm wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 17:45
You can avoid the charging time issue by doing a battery swap instead. It will depend on what technology companies end up supporting.
So you're proposing I put 300kg of batteries in my boot and pull the car half apart to void my warranty by changing them myself?
The way it's done in current models is the batteries are more easily accessible and come out in blocks. You have two (or more) sets of batteries so you can have one charging while another is in the car. Don't know if anyone is doing a commercially available version you can do at home, one I've seen is a very expensive car that comes with a team to do it for you. I think Tesla were doing one where a trained mechanic jacks up the car, pulls out the battery compartment and slots a new one in.

Battery swapping is less of a thing you do by hand at home and more something a trained human does, and eventually a robot will do for you in a tenth the time.

It's no good just looking at the technology as it is now, you need to look at what it was 10-15 years ago and imagine similar progression 10-15 years into the future. Batteries will be higher capacity, charge times will improve, etc. That's the stuff Labor and the Greens are looking to support and encourage, while the Liberals and Nationals are looking to protect their fossil fuel funding.
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